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Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:04:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #173
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Wednesday, August 27 1997 Volume 01 : Number 173



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 And Older Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: peculiar gasoline question ["Dave Resch"]
Re: Question - Overdrive transmission options ["Gary, 78 BBB"
Re: Question - Overdrive transmission options [Don Grossman
RE: 351C Horsepower Question [Randy Collins ]
RE: peculiar gasoline question [Tom Hogan ]
Re: peculiar gasoline question ["Mark Mech" ]
Re: Interior 51 ["Kevin" ]
Overdrive unit [Alan Mittelstaedt ]
Merc Trucks [Dave ]
ADMIN: Too many digests? [Ken Payne ]
Re: Tranny Grind [Ctrucknut aol.com]
ADMIN: Things in the works - need feedback [Ken Payne
RE: peculiar gasoline question [DC Beatty ]
RE: Question - Overdrive transmission options [DC Beatty
Re: 68 Ford Brake swap???? [Don Grossman ]
Re: Question - Overdrive transmission options ["George Shepherd"

=======================================================================

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Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:14:02 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: RE: peculiar gasoline question

I have to second Steve Delanty's recommendation to read the gasoline FAQ
at :



This is great! Anyone w/ a web browser and an interest in gasoline
internal combustion engines would be well served to read this!

A Note to Ken: You might want to consider a link to this site from the web
page. I believe it is just as informative as the "Snake Oil " articles you
have links to.

that increase the calorific content?>>

As for nitromethane, according to the articles in the gas FAQ, nitromethane
increases the volumetric efficiency of the engine because of its lower
stoichiometric air-fuel ratio (1.7:1). Nitromethane's specific energy at
stoichiometric ratio is a bit more than twice that of iso-octane (i.e.,
normal gasoline). Thus, to realize any benefit from burning "nitro" you'd
have to recalibrate your mixture from normal gasoline air-fuel ratio of
about 14:1 (i.e., rejet your carb).

>Could be. But is it possible that it is a more *efficient* motor fuel? I
am in
>Colorado and they force us to use this crap gas with MTBE added to it. I
guess
>it's extra oxygen. They used to switch to it only in winter but now I
guess some
>gas stations are using it full time so they can charge the higher price
full
>time.
Again, according to the gas FAQ articles, MTBE, ethanol, and other
"oxygenates" are used as octane enhancers to replace more toxic aromatic
hydrocarbons (evaporative emission problems) and, of course, lead.

The crap gas we use in CO is mandated because oxygenates are purported to
reduce the smog-forming tendencies of exhaust gases. The problem is that
oxygenates cannot contain the same specific energy content as gasoline
because they already have oxygen in their molecules. (The author of the
gas FAQ refers to them as pre-used hydrocarbons.:-)

>I knew right away when they would switch over to it as I seemed to use
more >gas for the same amount of driving.

As shown in the table that Steve copied in his original posting, ethanol
has less than half the specific energy of gasoline. MTBE and TAME (the
other two oxygenates I've seen around Denver) have about 3/4 the specific
energy of normal gas. In my 1980 F250 w/ 351M, I notice a painful
performance drop when I use gas with ethanol. MTBE and TAME run much
better in my truck.

> I was thinking that maybe I could mix some
>of the good gas with more of the crap gas (say, 10:1 or something) and get
>more mileage from a tank.

Actually, there are a lot of very complicated things going on w/ gasoline
blends. There are about 30 or so different hydrocarbons in gasoline, and
their ratios are constantly being tweaked at the refinery for various
production reasons and mandated regulatory reasons. Gasoline blends vary
from summer to winter (not counting the mandated oxygenates), for among
other things, to control the boiling point to prevent vapor lock in summer
(higher boiling point) and condensation in the winter (lower boiling
point). Therefore, it seems like it would not be a good idea to stock up
on summer gas to use in the winter, especially in a place that gets as cold
as it does in CO.

> My truck was designed to use higher octane gas I
>believe. I have been using about 85 octane.

By the way: the oxygenates do not adversely affect the octane of the gas.
(Remember, they also use oxygenates as octane enhancers.) Interestingly,
oxygenates tend to have very high octane values although they are low in
specific energy compared to normal gas.

If you're getting away w/ 85 octane, consider yourself lucky. My truck
takes 91 octane to keep from pinging and running on after the ignition is
turned off. And together we share that uniquely American joy of paying
more for a government mandated less at the pump all winter.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)
1980 F250 4x4 351M

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 18:46:39 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Question - Overdrive transmission options

> From: SuperMagot aol.com
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:41:21 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Question - Overdrive transmission options

> I have a 70 1/2ton 2WD SWB with a 460 and a C-6. The rearend has
> 3.7 gears. At around 60mph, the engine is doing 3000RPM.

The cheapest solution would be to find a late 70's c-6 with the wide
ratio gear set and go to 3.00 or 3.5 gears. I'm running 2.75 gears
with 29" tires and wide ratio for roughly 12 mpg and lots of low end
take off torque in low gear. My feeling is that I could improve the
mileage with 3.00 gears but not really sure.

NV has come out with a new 5600 or 5200 6 speed manual for medium, HD
trucks which will be available from Advance Adapters soon and may
have bell housings etc. available for the 460 (we hope). It is rated
at 600# (cast iron case)

The ZF 547 is a 5 speed used in large engine ford trucks and is rated
at 470# but uses ATF and is not noted for longevity (al case). It
has the big block bell housing already built in.

I try to get my gearing set up for the road to give me roughly 2k to
2100 at 60 by what ever means. My bronco with 351M is at 2139 and
gets 14 (roughly).

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:56:21 -0700
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: Question - Overdrive transmission options

SuperMagot aol.com wrote:

> I have a 70 1/2ton 2WD SWB with a 460 and a C-6. The rearend has 3.7 gears.
> At around 60mph, the engine is doing 3000RPM.
>
> Thats just a little to high for me, especially for such a light truck and a
> big engine.

Pull out the third member and drop in one with a set of 3.0 and leave
your trany alone. This sounds much easier than a trany swap.
- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net


63 Ford F-250 4x4 67' 390, t-98, Spicer 24, Dana 60, Dana 44

Phase 172: rebuild front suspension
>
------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:37:19 -0700
From: Randy Collins
Subject: RE: 351C Horsepower Question

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Don't' forget that the post 1971 models came with a retarded timing gear.


Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
Soon to have the following Randy installed options:
460 C-6



- -----Original Message-----
From: SARHOG aol.com [SMTP:SARHOG aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 1997 2:39 PM
To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: Re: 351C Horsepower Question

Dan posted:

I was just looking through an old Chilton's manual when I noticed something
odd. In 1971 the 351C 2V was rated at 240 HP, which is about what I'd
expect. But then in 1972 (the year I have) HP was only 164!!! Did they
add a bunch of emissions stuff in 72 to rob over 70 horses? Or did they
start measuring HP some other way? I mean, 76 horses is a lot--where did
it go?

~Dan

Your second guess is correct. They used to measure gross horsepower right
off the flywheel with little or no accessories (i.e. alternator, AC
compressor, etc.). Then, due to insurance rates I think, they went to
measuring net horsepower at the rear wheel with accessories. A little of
this is speculation on my part, so y'all feel free to jump in.

John Z
67 F-100 460/C-6




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