61-79-list-digest Sunday, May 10 1998 Volume 02 : Number 261



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
FTE 61-79 - Axle Spacers
FTE 61-79 - Re: twin piston calipers
FTE 61-79 - Re: engine
> FTE 61-79 - Re: Sunday Breakfast
RE: FTE 61-79 - After Market Sway bars
RE: FTE 61-79 - Traction Bars
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
FTE 61-79 - Rope seal
FTE 61-79 - A Soapbox Rant on Back Pressure.
FTE 61-79 - New Lincoln SUV
FTE 61-79 - Steering Wheel Hub
FTE 61-79 - U Joints
FTE 61-79 - FE vs. 385 ???
RE: FTE 61-79 - engine
> RE: FTE 61-79 - '69 F-250
FTE 61-79 - trans numbers
Re: FTE 61-79 - trans numbers
FTE 61-79 - Permission to use your pictures.
FTE 61-79 - Badges for the show
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE vs. 385 ???
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE vs. 385 ???
Re: FTE 61-79 - My front leaf springs
>
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Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 06:22:07 -0400
From: "Melayne Arnold"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

Ken,
Sunday morning is fine by me.We're going Thurs. evening and staying till
Sun. Any time others want is fine with us. Are you going to have the booth?
I'd like to be able to meet everyone before the end of the show. (SWMBO sez
that I'd feel pretty dumb getiing into a tug of war over a piece of chrome
on Saturday and then find out it was with another list member on Sunday).

Stoney

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Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:42:11 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Axle Spacers

I just disassembled a Dana 60-2 (semi-floating) with a Power-Lok unit. I'm
trying to figure out exactly what the little spacers between the axles do.
Each one is about an inch long with one end that has a flange that butts up to
end of each axle. The Power-Lok unit fits right into the full-floating (3/4
ton) axle that I am upgrading to. Does anyone know if these spacers are
required for the full-floating Dana 60 Power-Lok application? If so, any idea
on what kind of clearances there should be?

Thanks!

Colorado Jeff



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Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 10:08:59 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: twin piston calipers

Hey Ox,

Just went through the dual piston deal you are going through. I found it was
cheaper to get the rebuilt caliper unit than to buy the piston kits and do it
myself! The rebuilt units were $45 plus a $5 core....I think they call them an
"unloaded" unit, meaning no brake shoes included....

Good luck,

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 10:09:24 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: engine
>
Hey Eric,

If you picked up the entire engine/transmission assembly out of the 77, you
did good. Now, you just need to figure out the difference between the frame
cross members between the two rigs. I don't know about the 4x2's, but it looks
like the crossmember that the transmission bolts to in the 4x4's is
interchangeable between these two years. Sounds like you'll need a new
steering column as well to replace your "three on the tree" setup with the
automatic selector.

Since a lot of the 67's came stock with the FE/Auto setup, you should be able
to pick up a set of the correct motor mounts no problem from the junkyards....

Not much help, but good luck!

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 10:10:19 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Sunday Breakfast

Hi Ken,

Count me in on the Sunday AM deal....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 10:28:55 -0500
From: "Bear"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - After Market Sway bars

Thank you very much. That was a big help!

E-mail :  bear269 sparc.isl.net
Please view my home page at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.isl.net/~bear269/home

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-61-79-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Gary, 78 BBB
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 1998 11:25 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - After Market Sway bars


> From: "Bear"
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - After Market Sway bars
> Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 00:06:58 -0500

> I was looking in a catalog and I saw after market sway bars. I was
> wondering: What are they supposed to do, how do they work and are
> they worth the money? I was looking into getting the front and rear
> ones...

Ever see one of them fancy custom cars the LA gang guys build that go
up and down and bounce all over............well sway bars........Ok,
not really, sway bars are actually "Anti-Sway" bars and when one
wheel on an axle (front or rear) moves the anti-sway bar forces the
other side to move too but with some amount of lag built in to the
spring rate of the sway bar. All it is is a torsion bar with arms.
The primary purpose is to keep the body more level in turns.



My bronco has them front and rear and it corners like a Ferrari but
if I ever go to Moab, I'll carry my tools with me and take them off
before I go on the trails :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 12:06:09 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Traction Bars

FWIW, take a good estimate of what the engine makes at the crank, and
reduce that by 10% to 20%. this is what is assumed in vehicle calculations
when the true efficiency of the drivetrain is not known.

an automatic will decrease shock load, but increase the torque. a manual
is opposite of course. (assuming equal gear ratios, which of course may
not be the case. this is because a torque converter increases torque at
high relative engine to wheel speed difference.)

so if your 428 makes 410 #ft torque, then at the rear wheel, about 320-370
#ft of torque may be available if the final drive ratio is 1:1 with the
engine.

so, if the final drive ratio is 2.75 first gear, and 2:1 transfer case
(assuming 4x4 low range) and 4.10 rear gears, the final ratio is 22.55.
so, torque would be 80% * 22.55 * 410(esitmated engine torque) = about
7,400 #ft at the axles.

now, another factor applies, which is quite high for trucks in general.
the driveline inertia. this reduces it quite a bit. how much inertia?
hell, i don't know! also tire dia reduce's it.

here's the actual technical equation:

Ta=Fx*r+Lw*Aw=(Td-(Id*Ad)Nf

where:

Ta=torque on the axles
Fx=tractive force at the ground (lbs)
r= wheel radius
Iw=inertia of wheels and axles
Aw=rotation acceleration of the wheels
> Id=inertia of driveshaft
Ad=rotational acceleration of driveshaft
Nf=final drive ratio

Fx=is an even more complex eqation with more "unknowns".
i think you can assume about 60-80% of the rear axle wheight for this
number. it changes depending upon weight transfer, center of gravity,
inertia of sprung, unsprung parts, tire traction, and just about everything
else!

anyway, on my pull truck i have 1"od x 1/8"wall (if i remember correctly)
round DOM tubing. i welded in nuts at each end one with a LH thread, one
RH thread.

used 3/4 thread heim jounts and connected one end to axle bottom and one
end to frame. the tube is mounted so that from side of vehicle the tubes
and drive shaft are in almost the same exact plane. similiar to rancho's
set, but better IMHO.

sleddog

- ----------
From: BDIJXS[SMTP:BDIJXS aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 1998 7:58 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Traction Bars

Can anyone give me good upper estimate on how much torque would be measured
at
the rear wheels for a good, strong-running 428? I just need an upper
ballpark
figure here....I think that with that number, I can calculate about how
much
force will be transmitted to a set of traction bars (I'm trying to
eliminate
wrap-up), and therefore decide on what diameter they should be and what the
brackets I'm going to make need to be able to handle.....

Thanks!

Colorado Jeff
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 12:40:31 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

At 06:22 AM 5/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Ken,
> Sunday morning is fine by me.We're going Thurs. evening and staying till
>Sun. Any time others want is fine with us. Are you going to have the booth?

We'll a booth. I'm printing out the banner for it right now. Directions to
the pavilion for the Sunday breakfast will be at the booth.


>I'd like to be able to meet everyone before the end of the show. (SWMBO sez
>that I'd feel pretty dumb getiing into a tug of war over a piece of chrome
>on Saturday and then find out it was with another list member on Sunday).
>
>Stoney

We're planning on meeting Saturday in front of the convention center
around 10. Hope to see you there. Tug of war? Heck, when it comes
to getting a new grill for my 67 I have no shame!

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com
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Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:49:48 -0800
From: "Erik Marquez"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rope seal

>> Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 20:52:30 -0400
>> From: "THE PAVIES'"
>> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 360 Seal Replacement
>
>> look-see at whats really in there. But it's hard to believe Ford
>> used rope as an oil seal. Sounds like something you'd use as an
>> emergency temporary fix but not as something permanent. Maybe I can
>> wind some string around and stick gum on it.
SNIP
>The rope seals were very durable but very difficult to replace and
>not too forgiving of worn bearings but were used by many manufactures
>back then. I haven't seen one in so long I can't remember if there
>is any rubber parts to them but there was no rod so thay can't be
>driven out like the rubber ones, they have to be pulled out or the
> engine has to be pulled and worked on on a stand.
>
>78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
>78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
>78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!
>
>- -- Gary --
Gary is spot on, those rope seals do/did work well when installed correctly,
as with the rubber type, when replacing the seal (rubber grab with a pliers,
rope insert a small sheet metal screw into the end and pull that) have a
helper S L O W L Y turn the motor over in the same direction you are tring
to pull the seal out. This way the crank will help "push" the seal out. BTW
FELPRO still markets both types of seals, some one must still buy them.
Erik Marquez
78 Bronco
> bronco78 mosquitonet.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mosquitonet.com/~bronco78


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:37:25 -0700
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - A Soapbox Rant on Back Pressure.

On Soap Box.

Mike Schwall wrote:
"I used to have more torque, but I put on full length 1 1/2" primary headers
and 2 1/4" dual ....

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